tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33010980.post1500445417736914462..comments2024-03-22T21:55:42.651+00:00Comments on Elizabeth Baines: Reading group: A Pale View of Hills by Kazuo IshiguroElizabeth Baineshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17193751871434773972noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33010980.post-64256800711813675322023-05-09T09:04:14.671+01:002023-05-09T09:04:14.671+01:00I’m still hung up on the repeated rope/sandal dial...I’m still hung up on the repeated rope/sandal dialogue . It unsettled me and stuck out to me quite a bit but I couldn’t figure out the meaning. The way i’ve interpreted it is how Etsuko feels about what she’s done to Keiko and a reference to her suicide and the hanging. But I don’t understand why it would be repeated like that ? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33010980.post-53500436964059431872023-03-20T11:36:46.952+00:002023-03-20T11:36:46.952+00:00Anonymous:::, interesting that you agreed!Anonymous:::, interesting that you agreed!Elizabeth Baineshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17193751871434773972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33010980.post-22223831180663654102023-03-19T15:30:12.971+00:002023-03-19T15:30:12.971+00:00I just finished this book and immediately started ...I just finished this book and immediately started looking online for an interpretation. I found your post and think you are spot on with this analysis. Even if we are both incorrect it works well for me!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33010980.post-35300389850544146112022-08-08T11:16:46.179+01:002022-08-08T11:16:46.179+01:00Thanks for this, Anonymous.Thanks for this, Anonymous.Elizabeth Baineshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17193751871434773972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33010980.post-40985360119521881782022-08-07T21:41:20.398+01:002022-08-07T21:41:20.398+01:00Great points but I have to add to what you said ab...Great points but I have to add to what you said about Frank, you said that he probably didn’t come through and abandoned them but Etsuko mentions that she left Japan and came to England with an English man, who you find out is Niki father as her most recent husband was English, a man with whom she had Niki with. This gives me the impression that when she was talking about how Sachiko had an American lover, she was in fact talking about how her herself had and English lover. And like many other parts in the book, Etsuko says gets things muddled up when I comes to these memories and she’s changed names in the story as she refers to herself as Sachiko and her daughter as Mariko. So I believe that she’s changed the mans origin from British to American when reliving the events. She did this, as you mentioned before, because “people often tell their own painful stories via another character.”<br /><br />(Sorry if I made any errors while typing this, I didn’t have much time!!)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33010980.post-42380995343302503672022-06-11T15:17:39.657+01:002022-06-11T15:17:39.657+01:00Recommendation noted, thanks!Recommendation noted, thanks!Elizabeth Baineshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17193751871434773972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33010980.post-65083438725516083512022-06-09T22:59:44.660+01:002022-06-09T22:59:44.660+01:00I recommend reading The Unconsoled which is crypt...I recommend reading The Unconsoled which is cryptic, dream-like, and drove this reader into a state of confusion at times with its contradictions and magical transitions of time, place and fact. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33010980.post-60173215894626984592022-06-09T22:56:42.225+01:002022-06-09T22:56:42.225+01:00I finished reading the book just now and came acro...I finished reading the book just now and came across this very interesting discussion quite by chance. I am very taken with the idea that Keiko and Mariko are one and the same seen at different times. I've just finished reading Ishiguro's book The Unconsoled which seems to me a masterpiece. There are so many threads which run through all these works; dream-like sequences, shifts in time, and the unreliable narrator. Thankyou all for this very enlightening and interesting discussion. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33010980.post-15953565514065014182022-05-05T11:46:28.554+01:002022-05-05T11:46:28.554+01:00An interesting comment, thank you.An interesting comment, thank you.Elizabeth Baineshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17193751871434773972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33010980.post-47010344157009924892022-05-03T21:40:03.948+01:002022-05-03T21:40:03.948+01:00Just to add something to support the theory that E...Just to add something to support the theory that Etsuko-san is the same person as Sachiko-san, it is written that Osaga-san, her step-father, has a very devoted daughter, Kikuko-san. And later on, we learn that Sachiko-san's uncle is being cared for by his daughter, Yasuko-san. I think that the homonymy of the names of the old man's daughters and the situation itself may let us think that indeed, all along Etsuko-san was Sachiko-san. A beautiful novel all in all. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33010980.post-78040947469491747542021-10-09T12:32:02.133+01:002021-10-09T12:32:02.133+01:00Stephen, thank you so much for this illuminating c...Stephen, thank you so much for this illuminating comment.Elizabeth Baineshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17193751871434773972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33010980.post-89670675415920173422021-10-09T04:50:40.338+01:002021-10-09T04:50:40.338+01:00Thank you all for this great discussion. I think I...Thank you all for this great discussion. I think Ishiguros Paris Review interview is very helpful in understanding A Pale View of Hills, particularly how Sachiko and Etsuko relate to one another. He says there:<br />Let’s say somebody is talking about a mutual friend, and he’s getting angry about this friend’s indecisiveness about a relationship he’s in. He’s getting absolutely furious. Then you realize that he’s appropriating the friend’s situation to talk about himself. I thought this was an interesting way to narrate a novel: to have somebody who finds it too painful or awkward to talk about his own life appropriate someone else’s story to tell his own. <br /><br />This supports the theory that they are not the same person at different points in that person’s life, but that there are parallels between the two people’s stories, parallels so strong that Etsuko can use Sachikos story to tell her own. In doing so, Etsuko ends up mixing up the two stories, which is why we have some of her memories muddled or combined with others. But they are still two different women with their own lives and stories. Like mentioned above, the inconsistencies are too many and too irreconcilable for them to be the same person. For instance, Mariko was clearly born before the war, while Etsukos first pregnancy with Keiko was years after the war. Likewise Sachikos husband died during the war, but Jiro and Etsuko separated much later and Jiro did not die, but they separated due to unnamed irreconcilable differences.<br /><br />In short, Clare’s reading above makes the most sense and as mentioned above, it is consistent with Ishiguro’s intention. I thought including here the actual words from the interview and pointing out irreconcilable inconsistencies (unlike the America/England inconsistency, which can be explained in a way as you all have done) would help this discussion. <br />Steven Garzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05245277807008991078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33010980.post-60138553394356569092021-03-09T09:35:32.022+00:002021-03-09T09:35:32.022+00:00Thanks, Zhaklin.Thanks, Zhaklin.Elizabeth Baineshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17193751871434773972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33010980.post-27997283068114781732021-03-07T03:03:09.353+00:002021-03-07T03:03:09.353+00:00Such a good point of view. Add up the fact that Sa...Such a good point of view. Add up the fact that Sachiko was well educated and her husband had a great future before he died because of the war. So she leaves Japan years after her husband’s death. Thank you so much for sharing this.Zhaklinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13342274466304233554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33010980.post-41575384908014660512021-03-07T03:01:58.672+00:002021-03-07T03:01:58.672+00:00Thank you so much for sharing this. From this poin...Thank you so much for sharing this. From this point of view everything fits. Even the fact that Sachiko husband was having a good career before his dearh because of the war. He may be Jiro. Wonderful plot, everything’s so well written. I love it. Zhaklinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13342274466304233554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33010980.post-67391770699908265332021-02-10T12:14:02.474+00:002021-02-10T12:14:02.474+00:00Thanks for your contribution, Anonymous.Thanks for your contribution, Anonymous.Elizabeth Baineshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17193751871434773972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33010980.post-45137874359591093082021-01-28T16:04:24.181+00:002021-01-28T16:04:24.181+00:00Thank you so much for this analysis! I just finish...Thank you so much for this analysis! I just finished the books a couple of days ago and couldn't decide if I thought Mariko/Keiko or Sachiko/Etsuko are the same person. Reading this discussion helped a lot. I think I'm with Sofia with this one. Yes, there would be quite a few inconsistencies with that theory, but I agree with what Julia said and assume a lot of it probably has to do with the unreliability of Etsuko as a narrator.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06758460676377135327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33010980.post-46580916442859172302021-01-07T07:14:00.064+00:002021-01-07T07:14:00.064+00:00Great analysis. Thanks for sharing your ideas.Great analysis. Thanks for sharing your ideas.picassocat14https://www.blogger.com/profile/09550722594783890537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33010980.post-84655689342679529072020-12-24T14:14:23.739+00:002020-12-24T14:14:23.739+00:00Dear Elizabeth Baines,
I am a research scholar on...Dear Elizabeth Baines,<br /><br />I am a research scholar on Ishiguro's works.Just a day before, I finished reading this novel. Lot of clarifications,I am in need.Accidentally, I came across this blog.Most of my doubts clarified from the discussion.Lines from last part of nineth chapter:"Memory, I realize, can be an unreliable thing; often it is heavily coloured by the circumstances in which one remembers"- The phrase ' heavily coloured' deliberately intimates that Etsuko coloured her past and justified her acts through the portrayal of Sachiko and Mariko.At the end of the novel, author left a note for readers through these lines-" Keiko was happy that day. We rode on the cable-cars". These lines allowed the reader to remind trip to Inasa by Etsuko,Mariko and Sachiko.So Childhood traumatic experiences of Mariko led to suicidal death of adolescent Keiko.From the hints left by the author, we can conclude that Mariko and Keiko are the same;Sachiko is the representation of alter ego of Etsuko.<br /><br />Thanks a lot for all those who have contributed in this discussion .Deepahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16206044635537472752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33010980.post-47066560156060751652020-11-24T10:04:36.459+00:002020-11-24T10:04:36.459+00:00Thank you all for your thoughts and for contributi...Thank you all for your thoughts and for contributing to this most interesting discussion!Elizabeth Baineshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17193751871434773972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33010980.post-83286458937500804612020-11-22T10:40:34.833+00:002020-11-22T10:40:34.833+00:00I'm so glad I found this discussion. I finishe...I'm so glad I found this discussion. I finished the book last night and the mystery of Mariko/ Keiko had really puzzled me. I was coming to the conclusion they were one and the same person, but I hadn't quite thought that Sachiko/Etsuko were also one. That explanation does make a lot of sense to me and puts my mind at rest. Frank never fulfilled his promise of America, but an English man provided an escape route from a marriage that was proving smothering and frustrating with her passively neglectful husband giving so little attention to either his wife or his own father, just totally engrossed in his work. And the title works too, a hazy somewhat vague view of past memories.KEHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07675111071712887023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33010980.post-17010633942943721152020-05-17T13:05:13.747+01:002020-05-17T13:05:13.747+01:00For me Etsuko and Sachiko are the same character a...For me Etsuko and Sachiko are the same character at different moments in timej O R d i V a L B u E n Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12152641964633492441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33010980.post-24459306805114887092019-12-23T09:31:19.092+00:002019-12-23T09:31:19.092+00:00well,i am glad reading all these writeups on the b...well,i am glad reading all these writeups on the beautiful novel by ishiguro on which i am pursuing my doctorate.You see like many have said sachiko and etsuko as the same woman,it still leaves me jaw opened attimes that etsuko really existed or not.Of course there could be many analysis that proves they are one.I think etsuko is a war survivor suffering from pstd.post traumatic stress disorder where the patients suffers from an acute sense of nostalgia creating narratives of another story as a consolatory mechanism.Etsuko is doing the same consolatory narrative bildup just to console her wounded past.As we dont have any clues regarding the suicide of kieko or the death of jiro and ogata san.Ishiguro plays quite well with the mind of well let me say the readers as his way of arranging his narrative is so dilusional and it can provoke many subtle layers of the unconscious.<br />pratyush padheehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16266798957896259736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33010980.post-91181725136668556022018-07-04T03:44:35.664+01:002018-07-04T03:44:35.664+01:00I may be wrong, but I think the children that were...I may be wrong, but I think the children that were being murdered in the summer and the significance of the rope in the sandal refer to Keiko's (Mariko's) death by hanging. Mariko is fearful of Etsuko at the middle and end when she was asking what Etsuko meant to do with rope stuck in the sandal. Etsuko said that it was nothing and that she would never hurt Mariko (Keiko). She did, in fact, hurt her by moving her away from a home and culture she idntified with and the rope that inadvertently is dragged by Etsuko is the literal and figurative circumstance that led to Keiko's death.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33010980.post-57634659380744639412018-04-03T20:13:40.641+01:002018-04-03T20:13:40.641+01:00I have finished reading the book today and, like y...I have finished reading the book today and, like you, was quite puzzled in the end. I have read all of Kazuo Ishiguro's books, somehow this first one was the last for me.<br /><br />Concerning the question of Etsuko and Sachiko, I think it is similar to those passages in Ishiguro's other books where he the narrator (always quite unreliable in Ishiguro) tells a story, then suddenly rethinks it and changes something about it: "Now that I think about it, I'm not sure if this happended on that occasion. It might have happended in another year" or "it might have been him who said it, not me". These would be typical phrases in Ishiguro. When Etsuko mixes up Keiko and Mariko, I'm sure she mixes up different situations which happened at different times. Certainly she sees many parallels in her own story and Sachiko's story, but I believe that Sachiko and Mariko really did exist. It seems as if Etsuko left her husband Jiro to go to England, whereas Sachiko was a widow. Nevertheless Etsuko tells Sachiko's story to tell something about her own story, too. <br /><br />What puzzles me even more is the narration about the string which has caught in her sandal, which in the repetition really made me feel uncomfortable, as if she wanted to harm Mariko. There is something noone has mentioned so far – why does she keep telling about the child murders which occured in that summer? Only to show how careless Sachiko was leaving Mariko wandering about freely? Before Etsuko tells the last story about Sachiko, she mentions a child which has been strangled, and only a few pages further on, she tells us about that curious string (of which Mariko is very afraid). This appeared very strange to me and I wondered what she wanted to say with this.Julianoreply@blogger.com